‘Defending no-confidence motion is easier than getting vote of confidence’

Asad Umar, a former corporate guru, remains a trusted member of Prime minister Imran Khan’s team despite a few ups and downs in his political career since the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf assumed power in Aug. 2018.

After his removal from the coveted slot of Finance Minister in the initial days of the PTI government, Asad managed to win back the lost space and got back into the federal cabinet in November 2019 as Minister for Planning, Development, Reforms and Special Initiatives.

In the latest party shake-up, prime minister also appointed him as the Secretary General of the PTI – a decision which raised many eyebrows not just among the critics of the government but even within the ruling party as holding both the cabinet position and an all-important party office goes against the grain of the philosophy of good governance. Once upon a time even Imran Khan himself used to criticize this trend. 

However, Asad Umar’s admirers within the party see him as an outspoken, loyal and efficient cabinet member. Perhaps for these qualities, he made it into the list of 10 best performing ministers in Prime Minister Imran Khan’s cabinet. Bol News interviews Asad Umar…

The Opposition appears confident about the success of it’s planned no confidence motion against the PM and has been claiming that it enjoys the support of some 20-25 PTI MNAs. What’s your assessment?

Asad Umar (AU): When a story is told for the first time, you may think that there could be some truth in these tall claims. But if the same old story is narrated repeatedly, one sees through the gimmickry.

The truth is that we are hearing the same story for the sixth time. The opposition parties have been claiming time and again that 15-20 PTI MNAs will ditch their party and its allies would abandon it too. But that has not happened. Today, when the opposition parties are again making such statements, they themselves are unsure of their statements.

When the last vote of confidence was taken by the prime minister from the National Assembly (in March 2021), we got 178 votes, including those of our allies. The Speaker’s vote was not included in these 178. I remember well that the night before that voting, I informed the premier that we will receive 178 votes as some people were out of the country and a few others were unwell. The next day we received exactly the same number of votes. This shows that our votes and people are intact. I don’t see any possibility that any of them will change sides. Rest assured that the opposition is making hollow claims. The day these opposition parties get the minimum required number, they won’t wait even a day to table the no confidence motion.

Why are rumours rife that some of your members don’t want to contest the next elections on the PTI’s ticket?

AU: I dismiss these reports. There are, indeed, some MNAs who appear angry with the party and repeatedly raise their concerns. In fact, some of them even raise concerns publically. But till now I haven’t found any party member who says that he is ready to leave Imran Khan. Whenever there is some important vote — from budget to the vote of confidence – our MNAs ensure that our number never falls short. I am among those four or five people, who are assigned the duty to contact MNAs, so I have gone through this process several times.

If the Opposition decides to bring a no confidence motion, will the PM fight it out or dissolve the assemblies?

AU: This is not a new situation for us. We have already gone through this process. If you recall, when Hafeez Shaikh lost the vote (in the Senate), Imran Khan personally decided to take the vote of confidence on an urgent basis. The way rules are formed, it is more difficult to get a vote of confidence compared to defending the no confidence motion. When we say that we have to get the vote of confidence then we have to show 172 members in the assembly, but when the opposition brings the no confidence motion, they have to produce 172 members. We have the required numbers, so why would we dissolve the assembly?

Open balloting is a different matter, but when a secret ballot was held, your finance minister Hafeez Shaikh lost to Yousuf Raza Gillani amidst reports that some of the members were bought.

AU: The first thing is how sad it is that both of us are admitting that whenever there is secret balloting, money and bribes are involved. These people are the representatives of Pakistan. They have the right to make the constitution or to amend it. But let me tell you that whenever the PTI would have the required number of votes, we will bring an amendment to abolish secret balloting. What’s the need of a secret ballot? When masses cast votes to elect public representatives, it is the personal privilege of voters. But once I am elected, my personal privilege is no more prevalent. Now I am answerable to the masses. So I must vote openly so that my voters know my choices and what I did for them.

Now coming back to your question, indeed, it is relatively more dangerous when there is a secret ballot. But as I have said earlier, I haven’t come across any single MNA or ally who is willing to leave Imran Khan. As far as the no confidence motion against the Speaker is concerned, I don’t anticipate anything worrisome or untoward. However, if you speak about the possibilities, then yes it has more possibilities, because of the secret ballot.

So you think the Speaker could be in danger?

AU: No, I have not said that the speaker is in danger. I have only said that the Opposition do not have the required votes to force a change. Therefore, the Speaker is not in the danger of being removed. But it is a fact too that some people took money in Hafeez Shaikh’s vote.

Did you identify those members who voted against Hafeez Sheikh?

AU: Until you have definite and strong evidence, allegations should not be made against anyone. So, in the Hafeez Shaikh ballot, too, there is no definite evidence to prove anyone guilty. I think no one is in a position to say who exactly ditched us. There are a few people, who have confidentially mentioned some names, but even these suspects don’t match one another.

That’s why I say that the votes should be cast openly. If their conscience says that Yousuf Raza Gillani should be the Senator, then they should stand up and say it openly.

How confident are you about your allies in case a no confidence motion is moved against the premier?

AU: I am in touch with Aminul Haq and also met some of the other MQM leaders. I am also in touch with Moonis Elahi and the PML-Q as well and I have also met Sadiq Sanjrani recently. I assure you that all of our allies are with us and we have no doubts about them. Secondly, there is no Tareen factor working against us. Jahangir Tareen himself categorically said he is not against Imran Khan and doesn’t want anything to happen to the government. Yes, the Tareen group exists, but we haven’t seen much activity on their part.

But our sources confirm that Tareen Group is exploring its options. How many of your MNAs can go with the Tareen Group?

AU: In my opinion none. Tareen Sahib is an independent citizen of an independent country. He is a very senior person of Pakistan’s political system. He has acquaintances and friends everywhere. So his meetings and staying engaged with different people is not a sinister sign for us by any means.

The MQM delegation in its recent visit to Lahore criticised the government and said they have reservations about Imran Khan’s style of governance. Can they defect at any stage?

AU: I have to talk about this issue a little more carefully here as they are our allies. But it is a fact that the MQM doesn’t have any central leader at the moment who can take a solid decision in this regard. That’s why you often hear different voices and varying statements from them. But overall, when the Rabita Committee of the MQM makes a decision that is widely followed. Other than that, if you closely follow Karachi’s politics, then the issues which are close to the hearts of the MQM voters, including the water issue, public transport, the census issue, or their position about the local bodies system, both the PTI and the MQM are on the same page. If some people from the MQM want to quit the alliance with the PTI0 and wish to form an alliance with the PPP or the PML-N, what will they tell their voters? What gain will they get out of this move? So I don’t see the MQM making any such move.

The Balochistan Awami Party (BAP) appears annoyed with the PTI for not giving enough representation to them except appointing just one minister from the province. Do you plan to address their grievances?

AU: I personally think that their claim does have some weightage. Balochistan’s representation will improve in the Cabinet soon. I don’t think there is any harm in that. But let me also give the counter narrative that at the moment, the deputy speaker in the National Assembly and the Chairman Senate are from Balochistan, which has happened for the first ever time in Pakistan’s history. I assure you that both the BAP and the PTI have a very good working relationship and they are one of our best allies.

Why is the government going for jalsas instead of addressing the issues?

AU: There are two different reasons for that. First of all, I don’t buy this argument that the prime minister or government should not do jalsas. I don’t agree with this principle. In Pakistan’s history, we only have two examples when someone has come into power after starting from the scratch; Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto and Imran Khan. Bhutto even used to make foreign policy decisions in his Gaddafi Stadium jalsas. I am clear about this; when Imran Khan is among the masses, the PTI’s popularity graph soars. But when he is at Bani Gala, the PTI’s graph goes down a bit. Imran Khan is the leader of the people, who mobilized them from the grassroots level. He launched a movement and became the prime minister after 22 years of struggle. Why should he shy away from his people? I have been arguing about this for the last three years. As far as the current situation is concerned, the local bodies’ elections are on the cards and we have to mobilize our workers as well our voters, who are longing to see Imran Khan among them. When I became the secretary general of the PTI, the first important decision we took was asking the party Chairman Imran Khan and not Prime Minister Imran to again be among the masses and meet his people.

What happened to your party in the first phase of KP local bodies elections? Secondly, in Punjab you badly lost the cantonment elections.

AU: Look, when the PTI contests elections, we don’t adopt the traditional way of using the government machinery and the state power to influence polls. In 2015, when the local bodies’ elections were held in 24 districts in KP, we won in nine districts and lost 15 districts. All of my journalist friends started saying, “Asad you must admit that there is no hope for your party in the province.” But we bounced back in the KP with a two-third majority.

Let me clarify. A large number of the PTI voters want to see Imran Khan as the prime minister, but they don’t necessarily come out to vote in the local bodies’ polls. So the LG polls results are no yardstick of the PTI or Imran Khan’s popularity. If you check Peshawar’s vote for example, the mayors who have been elected have received less number of votes compared to the votes of one constituency of the National Assembly. There are five National Assembly constituencies and all have been won by PTI.

Other than that, let me remind you that all the parties, including the ANP, the PPP and the PML-N formed their separate governments in KP during the past. But the PTI won from twice as many districts as all of them put together. Yes, it is true that our expectations were not exactly met in the previous KP local bodies’ polls, but the scenario will be different in the second phase.

As for Punjab’s LG elections, they are very important and the party’s preparations are in full swing. I have told you that the Prime Minister is going out for the jalsas while we are also arranging conventions in all districts and workers are being mobilized. Inshallah you will see a fully charged PTI in this local bodies elections. Previously, we were busy in the government affairs but now you will witness a marked surge in our popularity and people’s response.

How do you propose to bring back Nawaz Sharif to Pakistan?

AU: Well, I want to congratulate his family, his party leaders and the people who love him that he is completely fit and also traveling 400kms to inspect factories. Nawaz is a big political leader of Pakistan and we also want to see him in Pakistan and continue with his narrative. But he prefers to run the party’s affairs from the UK, thousands of kilometers away from his country which is further damaging his image.

Now, as far as bringing him back is concerned, we have already appealed to the UK government for the same. If you recall, when he was leaving for the UK on medical grounds, we allowed him to go abroad. But it has now been proved that his medical reports were fake. Even at that time we had requested the courts to ensure a solid and substantial guarantee for his return, but it could not be done.

In my opinion, the same court that allowed him to leave, should issue an order for Nawaz Sharif’s return to Pakistan and the ex-premier should comply. Even the strongest of Nawaz Sharif’s supporters cannot deny the fact that he is hiding behind fake medical reports and remains completely fit.